Difference between revisions of "Races(Builder)"
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{{CoffeeMUDWikiBuilderTOC}} | {{CoffeeMUDWikiBuilderTOC}} | ||
This page is intended for the discussion of HOW to build a race, not a listing of the races themselves (which should be available in the player RACES page). | This page is intended for the discussion of HOW to build a race, not a listing of the races themselves (which should be available in the player RACES page). | ||
+ | __NOTOC__ | ||
=Racial Fields= | =Racial Fields= | ||
Line 8: | Line 9: | ||
===Name=== | ===Name=== | ||
− | This is the player-friendly name for the race and may include spaces and hyphens. | + | This is the player-friendly name for the race and may include spaces and hyphens. This name should be unique to provide players with the appropriate feedback from HELP files and for use in abilities. The system will enforce this uniqueness of player-friendly names by deleting all but 1 version. (Need to determine which version remains...last saved?) |
===Racial Category=== | ===Racial Category=== | ||
Line 75: | Line 76: | ||
===Resources=== | ===Resources=== | ||
This is a listing of items generated when the race's body is butchered. In general, these items should be some sort of resource, like GenFoodResource, GenLiquidResource or GenResource, used for crafting. This may be a subset of body parts, meat/flesh, bones, blood, hair, organs or other components. | This is a listing of items generated when the race's body is butchered. In general, these items should be some sort of resource, like GenFoodResource, GenLiquidResource or GenResource, used for crafting. This may be a subset of body parts, meat/flesh, bones, blood, hair, organs or other components. | ||
+ | *It may be a hard restriction for the item to be some sort of resource. | ||
==Stats and Abilities== | ==Stats and Abilities== | ||
Line 81: | Line 83: | ||
===PhysStat Adjustments=== | ===PhysStat Adjustments=== | ||
+ | ====Senses==== | ||
+ | When edited from the command line (CL), this gives a list of available senses to toggle between TRUE and FALSE. When edited through the MUD Grinder, it asks for a bit value of all senses combined for that selection. For example, a race that can [B] see hidden (2) and [D] detect sneakers (32) would have the B and D flags set to TRUE in the command line or a bit value of 34 for senses when using the MUD Grinder. | ||
+ | {| class="wikitable sortable" style="border: 1px solid #c6c9ff; border-collapse: collapse;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" border="1" width="90%" | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | ! Sense | ||
+ | ! CL | ||
+ | ! Bit Value | ||
+ | ! Effect | ||
+ | ! Notes | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Can see in the dark | ||
+ | | A | ||
+ | | 128 | ||
+ | | Does not require a light source to see items, mobs, rooms, exits or to read. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Can see hidden | ||
+ | | B | ||
+ | | 2 | ||
+ | | Can see mobs, items and exits that are naturally hidden. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Can see invisible | ||
+ | | C | ||
+ | | 4 | ||
+ | | Can see mobs, items and exits that are invisible (normally magically invisible). | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Can detect sneakers | ||
+ | | D | ||
+ | | 32 | ||
+ | | Can see entry messages of mobs and items that sneak into a room. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Has infravision | ||
+ | | E | ||
+ | | 256 | ||
+ | | Can see heat sources and living bodies in the dark, but not cold items or undead. Cannot read in the dark. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Can see good | ||
+ | | F | ||
+ | | 16 | ||
+ | | Can see good auras on rooms, items and mobs. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Can see evil | ||
+ | | G | ||
+ | | 8 | ||
+ | | Can see evil auras on room, items and mobs. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Can see magic | ||
+ | | G | ||
+ | | 64 | ||
+ | | Can see magic auras on rooms, items and mobs. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is Mute | ||
+ | | I | ||
+ | | 8192 | ||
+ | | Cannot speak. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is Deaf | ||
+ | | J | ||
+ | | 512 | ||
+ | | Cannot hear sounds. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is Blind | ||
+ | | K | ||
+ | | 1 | ||
+ | | Cannot see normally. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |} | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Disposition==== | ||
+ | When edited from the command line (CL), this gives a list of available senses to toggle between TRUE and FALSE. When edited through the MUD Grinder, it asks for a bit value of all senses combined for that selection. | ||
+ | {| class="wikitable sortable" style="border: 1px solid #c6c9ff; border-collapse: collapse;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" border="1" width="90%" | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | ! Disposition | ||
+ | ! CL | ||
+ | ! Bit Value | ||
+ | ! Effect | ||
+ | ! Notes | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is invisible | ||
+ | | A | ||
+ | | 4 | ||
+ | | makes the target invisible at all times unless otherwise suppressed. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is hidden | ||
+ | | B | ||
+ | | 2 | ||
+ | | makes the target hidden at all times unless otherwise suppressed. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is never seen | ||
+ | | C | ||
+ | | 1 | ||
+ | | makes the target never seen. This should only be used to script special events. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is magical | ||
+ | | D | ||
+ | | 64 | ||
+ | | makes the target have a magical aura (detectable by detect magic). | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is glowing | ||
+ | | E | ||
+ | | 8192 | ||
+ | | makes the target emit a small amount of light, enough to see the target in the dark. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is a light source | ||
+ | | F | ||
+ | | 65536 | ||
+ | | makes the target a light source. | ||
+ | | This race glows brightly enough to illuminate a dark room. | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is flying | ||
+ | | G | ||
+ | | 2048 | ||
+ | | Grants the target the FLYING flag. | ||
+ | | This race is always flying. Think of a D&D Beholder instead of a crow. For a crow, give the race wings and the ability [[WingFlying|Winged Flight]]. | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is climbing | ||
+ | | H | ||
+ | | 16384 | ||
+ | | Puts the target in the climbing state, halting hit point, mana, and movement regeneration, but able to use UP or DOWN without restrictions (except for into InTheAir rooms). | ||
+ | | This is an awful disposition to apply to a race. Consider granting them climbing abilities instead. | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is sleeping | ||
+ | | I | ||
+ | | 512 | ||
+ | | Puts the target in a sleeping state, greatly reducing awareness but increasing hit point, mana, and movement regeneration. | ||
+ | | This is a horrible disposition for a race, as they will constantly be sleeping. It may be appropriate for Treants in a magic-dead area, but highly unplayable. | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is sitting | ||
+ | | J | ||
+ | | 1024 | ||
+ | | Puts the target in a sitting state, reducing awareness but increasing hit point, mana, and movement regeneration. | ||
+ | | Races that are always sitting won't use their legs for moving, but will be able to crawl from room to room. | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is sneaking | ||
+ | | K | ||
+ | | 32 | ||
+ | | Suppresses entry/exit messages when the target changes rooms except to targets that can detect hidden. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is swimming | ||
+ | | L | ||
+ | | 4096 | ||
+ | | Puts the target in a swimming state, enabling motion in any direction through water without a swim check. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Evil aura | ||
+ | | M | ||
+ | | 8 | ||
+ | | Gives the target an EVIL disposition. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Good aura | ||
+ | | N | ||
+ | | 16 | ||
+ | | Gives the target a GOOD disposition. | ||
+ | | | ||
+ | |- | ||
+ | | Is unattackable | ||
+ | | O | ||
+ | | 2097152 | ||
+ | | Prevents the target from being subject to combat. This disposition should be used with caution, since it may have some unintended effects. Consider Prop_SafePet for mobs. | ||
+ | | This race will be unattackable. It may be something to consider for trainers, but if players are able to become this race in some way (WISH, Breeding, etc) it will ruin your game. Use with the utmost caution and careful consideration on races. | ||
+ | |} | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Level==== | ||
+ | This PhysStat is not normally used. It would set any MOB's level to that of the race. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Ability==== | ||
+ | This PhysStat is not normally used. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Weight==== | ||
+ | This PhysStat is not normally used. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Height==== | ||
+ | This PhysStat is not normally used. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Armor==== | ||
+ | This PhysStat is not normally used. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Damage==== | ||
+ | This PhysStat is not normally used. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Attack==== | ||
+ | This PhysStat is not normally used. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ====Rejuv==== | ||
+ | Set to 0 if this race only rejuvenates on MUD restart. This should normally be set to its default (maximum) value. | ||
===CharStat Adjustments=== | ===CharStat Adjustments=== | ||
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===Natural Weapon=== | ===Natural Weapon=== | ||
+ | Using this field, a StdWeapon or GenWeapon may be added to the race to be used whenever no other weapon is equipped. | ||
+ | *From the Command Line, generate the weapon and place it in your inventory before modifying the race. | ||
+ | *From the Grinder, generate the weapon, save the room the weapon is in, visit the room in the Grinder, then go to the race editor, edit the race and locate your racial weapon. | ||
+ | |||
===Weapons Race=== | ===Weapons Race=== | ||
The name of a standard race which will be used as a source of random racial unarmed weapons. Enter here the name of a race that looks the most like the one you are creating. If you are create a generic race on top of an existing standard one, you will need to use the fully qualified class name of the form: com.planet_ink.coffee_mud.Races.<racename> in order to access the standard version. | The name of a standard race which will be used as a source of random racial unarmed weapons. Enter here the name of a race that looks the most like the one you are creating. If you are create a generic race on top of an existing standard one, you will need to use the fully qualified class name of the form: com.planet_ink.coffee_mud.Races.<racename> in order to access the standard version. | ||
+ | *This field will overwrite any Natural Weapons listed in the above field. Set to NONE to use a customized natural weapon. | ||
===Help Entry=== | ===Help Entry=== | ||
=Notes= | =Notes= | ||
+ | *If for some odd reason you have two (or more) races which have the same player-friendly name, only one is recognized, and erases / overrides all the others. | ||
*Dont give races a shapeshift-type ability as a RACIAL ability. Once they shapeshift to a new race, they will lose the ability to shapeshift. | *Dont give races a shapeshift-type ability as a RACIAL ability. Once they shapeshift to a new race, they will lose the ability to shapeshift. | ||
*Crossbred races will receive the 4 four abilities from its two parent races. | *Crossbred races will receive the 4 four abilities from its two parent races. | ||
*Setting a racial/cultural ability to level 0 will make the cost to use that ability not decrease as the race levels <I>(to be verified)</I>. | *Setting a racial/cultural ability to level 0 will make the cost to use that ability not decrease as the race levels <I>(to be verified)</I>. | ||
+ | *Races that are uncultured/backwaters should probably have a penalty to WISDOM (this will limit available practices) or INTELLIGENCE (this will slow the proficiency increase). | ||
+ | *Races that are tribal should have a lower CHARISMA (this will limit group sizes and trade). A small penalty in any of these goes far, so -1 or -2 will both be noticed. |
Latest revision as of 18:21, 27 June 2024
CoffeeMUD |
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Administrator Builder Player |
=CoffeeMUD Builder Information= | |||
---|---|---|---|
Basics | Praetor Player Support Commands Zapper Masks | Advanced | Races Classes Abilities Socials Scripting |
Building | Behaviors Properties Areas Rooms Exits Items Mobs | Systems | Achievements Crafting Help Info Ships Planes of Existence Quests Triumphs |
This page is intended for the discussion of HOW to build a race, not a listing of the races themselves (which should be available in the player RACES page).
Racial Fields
Meta Data
Race ID
This field is the codebase unique name for the race. It should not include spaces.
Name
This is the player-friendly name for the race and may include spaces and hyphens. This name should be unique to provide players with the appropriate feedback from HELP files and for use in abilities. The system will enforce this uniqueness of player-friendly names by deleting all but 1 version. (Need to determine which version remains...last saved?)
Racial Category
This is the racial grouping of the race.
- To create a new Racial Category; Edit a race from the command line, and change their racial category to: NEW NewRaceCatName.
Availability
This determines who can all become a member of that race. Fantasy/Heroic/Technical settings mean starting players in a mud with that type of setting may become that race. A "Skills Only" setting means that it is not available to a starting player of that type of setting, but may be accessed via specific skills (like polymorph).
Disabled Flags
This is a set of flags that can be applied to a race to prevent certain affects.
- CLASSLESS - Race cannot benefit from a class
- LEVELLESS - Race does not benefit from levels
- EXPLESS - Race cannot earn experience
- CHARMLESS - Race cannot be charmed
- CHILDLESS - Race cannot produce offspring
- INFATIGUEABLE - Race does not get sleepy
Never Create Corpse
This flag, when checked true, will result in no corpse for the given race. This is ideal for spirits and other non-corporeal creatures.
Rideable Player
This flag, when checked true, will allow other races to MOUNT this player. Weight restrictions may apply for mounting.
Physical Characteristics
Base Weight
This is the minimum weight of an adult member of the race.
Weight Variance
This is a number between 0 and the max value that will be added to the base weight to determine the MOB's actual weight.
Base Male Height
This is the base height of an adult male in your MUD's measurement system. We generally consider this to be inches, but it could just as easily be centimeters or geberdomins. It is generally measured from ground to highest point on the MOB, but it could be measured as a length for certain races, if desired.
Base Female Height
This is the base height of an adult female in your MUD's measurement system. We generally consider this to be inches, but it could just as easily be centimeters or geberdomins.
Height Variance
This is a number between 0 and the max value that will be added to the base height to determine the MOB's actual height.
Breathables
This is a list of material types that the race can breath, with AIR and WATER being the most common types of atmospheres breathable. Note: excluding air from the list will mean the creature will suffocate in normal rooms.
Body Parts
This field denotes the number and type of body parts available for amputation, body piercing, or making called strikes on.
- Antennea
- Eye - At least one is required for normal sight. Creatures with no eyes are considered blind. Each pair (2) of eyes provides 1 EYES wear location.
- Ear - At least one is required to hear. Creatures with no ears are considered deaf. Each pair (2) of ears provides 1 EARS wear location.
- Head - Each head provides one HEAD wear location.
- Neck - Each neck provides one NECK wear location.
- Arm - Each pair (2) of arms enables one ARMS wear location (shoulders/sleeves). Required for the WEAR command.
- Hand - Required for manipulating items, including GET and OPEN commands. Each Hand provides 1 WRIST location and 1 FINGER location (either RIGHT or LEFT). Each pair (2) of hands provides one HANDS wear location. The first hand provides a WIELD location, while all subsequent hands provide a HELD location.
- Torso - Each torso provides 1 TORSO wear location.
- Leg - Each pair (2) of legs provides one LEGS wear location.
- Foot - Each pair (2) of feet provides one FEET wear location.
- Nose - NOT required to use the SNIFF command.
- Gill - Basically a NOSE alternative. Does not confer water breathing automatically.
- Mouth - Required to eat, drink and talk. Each mouth provides one MOUTH wear location.
- Waist - Each waist provides one WAIST wear location.
- Tail
- Wing - Required for the Winged Flying ability.
Unwearable Locs
Not all body parts are tied to wear locations (Anetennea, tails, nose, gills and wings, for example). Not all wear locations are tied to a body part (BODY, FLOATING NEARBY, and BACK). Races may have further restrictions on which body parts may actually be equipped with items, which can further be overriden with Prop_WearOverride.
Resources
This is a listing of items generated when the race's body is butchered. In general, these items should be some sort of resource, like GenFoodResource, GenLiquidResource or GenResource, used for crafting. This may be a subset of body parts, meat/flesh, bones, blood, hair, organs or other components.
- It may be a hard restriction for the item to be some sort of resource.
Stats and Abilities
XP Adjustment
This adjustment determines how much experience a player of that race will earn, and is applied to all forms of experience. A negative adjustment means the race earns less experience. Races that have a lot of innate bonuses (or potentially, long-lived races) should have a negative XP Adjustment. Providing a positive bonus on XP Adjustment is NOT advised, as players will run around polymorphed as that race as often as possible (although, if you want a particular race in your MUD to be dominant, providing a 10% XP bonus to that race will do it!).
PhysStat Adjustments
Senses
When edited from the command line (CL), this gives a list of available senses to toggle between TRUE and FALSE. When edited through the MUD Grinder, it asks for a bit value of all senses combined for that selection. For example, a race that can [B] see hidden (2) and [D] detect sneakers (32) would have the B and D flags set to TRUE in the command line or a bit value of 34 for senses when using the MUD Grinder.
Sense | CL | Bit Value | Effect | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|
Can see in the dark | A | 128 | Does not require a light source to see items, mobs, rooms, exits or to read. | |
Can see hidden | B | 2 | Can see mobs, items and exits that are naturally hidden. | |
Can see invisible | C | 4 | Can see mobs, items and exits that are invisible (normally magically invisible). | |
Can detect sneakers | D | 32 | Can see entry messages of mobs and items that sneak into a room. | |
Has infravision | E | 256 | Can see heat sources and living bodies in the dark, but not cold items or undead. Cannot read in the dark. | |
Can see good | F | 16 | Can see good auras on rooms, items and mobs. | |
Can see evil | G | 8 | Can see evil auras on room, items and mobs. | |
Can see magic | G | 64 | Can see magic auras on rooms, items and mobs. | |
Is Mute | I | 8192 | Cannot speak. | |
Is Deaf | J | 512 | Cannot hear sounds. | |
Is Blind | K | 1 | Cannot see normally. |
Disposition
When edited from the command line (CL), this gives a list of available senses to toggle between TRUE and FALSE. When edited through the MUD Grinder, it asks for a bit value of all senses combined for that selection.
Disposition | CL | Bit Value | Effect | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|
Is invisible | A | 4 | makes the target invisible at all times unless otherwise suppressed. | |
Is hidden | B | 2 | makes the target hidden at all times unless otherwise suppressed. | |
Is never seen | C | 1 | makes the target never seen. This should only be used to script special events. | |
Is magical | D | 64 | makes the target have a magical aura (detectable by detect magic). | |
Is glowing | E | 8192 | makes the target emit a small amount of light, enough to see the target in the dark. | |
Is a light source | F | 65536 | makes the target a light source. | This race glows brightly enough to illuminate a dark room. |
Is flying | G | 2048 | Grants the target the FLYING flag. | This race is always flying. Think of a D&D Beholder instead of a crow. For a crow, give the race wings and the ability Winged Flight. |
Is climbing | H | 16384 | Puts the target in the climbing state, halting hit point, mana, and movement regeneration, but able to use UP or DOWN without restrictions (except for into InTheAir rooms). | This is an awful disposition to apply to a race. Consider granting them climbing abilities instead. |
Is sleeping | I | 512 | Puts the target in a sleeping state, greatly reducing awareness but increasing hit point, mana, and movement regeneration. | This is a horrible disposition for a race, as they will constantly be sleeping. It may be appropriate for Treants in a magic-dead area, but highly unplayable. |
Is sitting | J | 1024 | Puts the target in a sitting state, reducing awareness but increasing hit point, mana, and movement regeneration. | Races that are always sitting won't use their legs for moving, but will be able to crawl from room to room. |
Is sneaking | K | 32 | Suppresses entry/exit messages when the target changes rooms except to targets that can detect hidden. | |
Is swimming | L | 4096 | Puts the target in a swimming state, enabling motion in any direction through water without a swim check. | |
Evil aura | M | 8 | Gives the target an EVIL disposition. | |
Good aura | N | 16 | Gives the target a GOOD disposition. | |
Is unattackable | O | 2097152 | Prevents the target from being subject to combat. This disposition should be used with caution, since it may have some unintended effects. Consider Prop_SafePet for mobs. | This race will be unattackable. It may be something to consider for trainers, but if players are able to become this race in some way (WISH, Breeding, etc) it will ruin your game. Use with the utmost caution and careful consideration on races. |
Level
This PhysStat is not normally used. It would set any MOB's level to that of the race.
Ability
This PhysStat is not normally used.
Weight
This PhysStat is not normally used.
Height
This PhysStat is not normally used.
Armor
This PhysStat is not normally used.
Damage
This PhysStat is not normally used.
Attack
This PhysStat is not normally used.
Rejuv
Set to 0 if this race only rejuvenates on MUD restart. This should normally be set to its default (maximum) value.
CharStat Adjustments
CharStat Settings
CharState Adjustments
Starting CharState Adj
Racial Abilities
These are a listing of abilities that every creature of that race may use. Racial abilities are qualified or gained at the designated level. Once gained, they remain at a static proficiency level defined by the race. Racial abilities should be the sort of ability that defines the race, like a fish that swims, a bird with winged-flying, or a monkey flinging poo.
Cultural Abilities
Cultural abilities are abilities that are qualified or gained at defined levels by mobs that are that race at the time of gaining that level. These abilities are generally social skills that are handed down from one generation to the next, such as languages or a particular gathering skill. Cultural abilities start at a designated proficiency, but may increase with practice or use.
Racial Effects
Racial Immunities
Aging Chart
Ambiance
Leave Text
This is the text shown to other viewers when the race leaves a room in the form of:
- MOBNAME -leave text- DIRECTION.
Arrive Text
This is the text shown to other viewers when the race leaves a room in the form of:
- MOBNAME -arrive text- from the DIRECTION.
Health Race
The name of a standard race which will be used as a source of health descriptions during combat. In short, enter here the name of a race that looks the most like the one you are creating. If you are creating a generic race on top of an existing standard one, you will need to use the fully qualified class name of the form: com.planet_ink.coffee_mud.Races.<racename> in order to access the standard version.
Event Race
The name of a standard race which will be used as a source of special race-specific java-coded events, such as the way Chickens lay eggs. Leaving this blank is the usual correct answer. If you are creating a generic race on top of an existing standard one, you will need to use the fully qualified class name of the form: com.planet_ink.coffee_mud.Races.<racename>in order to access the standard version
Outfit
This listing of items that will be generated when a player uses the OUTFIT command. It is a good idea to make sure the items are size 0 when you save it to a race, to make sure it will adjust to the player regardless of their height. It is also recommended that these items be essentially worthless and cosmetic in nature. The MOB's Class may provide more items, which should be a class-appropriate weapon and/or item required by the class.
Natural Weapon
Using this field, a StdWeapon or GenWeapon may be added to the race to be used whenever no other weapon is equipped.
- From the Command Line, generate the weapon and place it in your inventory before modifying the race.
- From the Grinder, generate the weapon, save the room the weapon is in, visit the room in the Grinder, then go to the race editor, edit the race and locate your racial weapon.
Weapons Race
The name of a standard race which will be used as a source of random racial unarmed weapons. Enter here the name of a race that looks the most like the one you are creating. If you are create a generic race on top of an existing standard one, you will need to use the fully qualified class name of the form: com.planet_ink.coffee_mud.Races.<racename> in order to access the standard version.
- This field will overwrite any Natural Weapons listed in the above field. Set to NONE to use a customized natural weapon.
Help Entry
Notes
- If for some odd reason you have two (or more) races which have the same player-friendly name, only one is recognized, and erases / overrides all the others.
- Dont give races a shapeshift-type ability as a RACIAL ability. Once they shapeshift to a new race, they will lose the ability to shapeshift.
- Crossbred races will receive the 4 four abilities from its two parent races.
- Setting a racial/cultural ability to level 0 will make the cost to use that ability not decrease as the race levels (to be verified).
- Races that are uncultured/backwaters should probably have a penalty to WISDOM (this will limit available practices) or INTELLIGENCE (this will slow the proficiency increase).
- Races that are tribal should have a lower CHARISMA (this will limit group sizes and trade). A small penalty in any of these goes far, so -1 or -2 will both be noticed.